Posts

Showing posts from 2011

Merry Christmas Star Trek Style

One of the most underrated benefits Christ brought to us during His earthly life is communication of God’s character and intentions. Some quotes from Jesus: “… I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.” John 8:28 “I speak of what I have seen with my Father…” John 8:38 “For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.” John 12:49 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. “ John 14:10 Christ came to tell us some important things.  Now for a story. I sat downstairs in the University of Tennessee’s Student Center in a little cafĂ© called “The Rafters.” I often went there to study. I find it easier to study with a lot of commotion around me. I don’t know why, I just do. I could not help but overhear a lively conversati...

Presbyterian

I have just read a post over at Kevin DeYoung’s blog that I find interesting. He laments some of the things that have bothered me most about the “Young, Restless, and Reformed” (YRR) movement. He takes careful aim at the one item that has bothered me most of late: the fact that many in this movement seem to downplay denominational ties. DeYoung writes: …it’s better to live in a specific ecclesiastical room instead of in the hallway of evangelicalism…We need to learn to be good churchmen, investing time in the committees, assemblies, and machinery of the church. We need to publicly celebrate and defend important doctrinal distinctives (e.g., baptism, the millennium, liturgical norms) even as we love and respect those who disagree. We should delight in our own histories and confessions, while still rejoicing that our different vehicles are ultimately powered by the same engines of the Christian faith–justification, the authority of Scripture, substitutionary atonement, and the glor...

Plantinga on Evolution in Christianity Today

A recent Christianity Today article gives this quote from Alvin Plantinga: …if you are a naturalist and think that we have come to be by evolutionary processes, then you will think that the main purpose of our cognitive processes, our mental faculties, is survival and reproductive fitness, not the production of true belief. Evolution doesn't give a rip about whether your beliefs are true. It only cares whether or not your actions are adaptive, whether they contribute to your fitness. From the point of view of evolution together with naturalism, you wouldn't expect that our faculties would be really adjusted to truth or aimed at truth. They would just be aimed at fitness. But if this is true, if our minds are aimed at mere survival, not at truth, then it's not probable that our minds should be reliable—that is, produce an appropriate preponderance of true over false beliefs; and if that is so, then one who believes both naturalism and evolution should reject the though...

The Canons of Dort

I believe that the Canons of Dort are true. This is a statement that came out the Synod of Dort, held from 1618-1619. The Canons of Dort outline the system of theology known today as the “five points of Calvinism.” The problem I have with most “five-point Calvinists” is that the Canons of Dort contain much more than five points. Many explanations of the TULIP (total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and the perseverance of the saints) are gross simplifications of the Canons of Dort. [This is especially true of explanations given by those who oppose Calvinism. It is easier to knock down a straw man than it is to knock down a real man, and so it is easier to criticize an oversimplified Calvinism that the more robust form.] Some of those who teach the “five points” leave out some of the quotes below: This death of God's Son is the only and entirely complete sacrifice and satisfaction for sins; it is of infinite value and worth, more than ...

Reformed?

Part of the problem is that the current revival in reformed theology is not actually a revival in Reformed theology. Adherence to five or, more frequently, four points of Calvinism is that which qualifies one as reformed these days and thus as part of the movement. Yet such adherence leaves massive and important areas of theology and church life undecided. A movement built on such minimal agreement is a movement whose strength and unity depends to a large degree on sleight of hand or at least on pretending that much else can be filed under `Agree to differ.' - Carl Trueman I believe in the system of religion outlined in the Westminster Standards , the Westminster Confession of Faith and Larger and Shorter Catechisms. Those detailed statements of the Christian faith ask and answer many questions about the Bible and theology. All of the things mentioned in them are important. Relatively few of the so-called “new Calvinists” hold to a robust statement of faith such as this one. S...

Another Article for My Local Paper

This is the third in a series of articles I have written for our local paper. The Heidelberg Catechism: Question One and Two In the last two weeks, our articles introduced the idea of a catechism and introduced The Heidelberg Catechism. This week, we will discuss the first of the fifty-two sections of the catechism. This section contains questions one and two. The first question reads: “What is your only comfort in life and in death? That I am not my own, but belong—body and soul, in life and in death—to my faithful Savior Jesus Christ. He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood, and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil. He also watches over me in such a way that not a hair can fall from my head without the will of my Father in heaven: in fact, all things must work together for my salvation. Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him.” Ch...

Another Article for My Local Paper

What is The Heidelberg Catechism? Last week’s article gave a brief definition of a catechism and an introduction to a catechism’s use in the church. We learned that catechisms are “structure statements of faith written in the form of questions and answers.” This week we will look at the background and history of a reformation catechism respected by several different denominations, The Heidelberg Catechism. The Heidelberg Catechism was composed in Heidelberg, Germany, in the late 1500’s. Elector Frederick III, who ruled the German province, which contained the city of Heidelberg, had the catechism written in order to bring unity between the various religious groups under his rule. Many believe Zacharius Ursinus and Caspar Olevianus were coauthors of the new catechism, but the Elector wrote that the catechism was written “with the advice and cooperation of our entire theological faculty in this place, and of all superintendents and distinguished servants of the church." It wa...

Grace Presbyterian In The News

Our church has been running a series of newpaper articles in our local paper that I have mentioned here before.  We now have a web page where people can leave comments on those articles.  Just follow this link .

Another Article for my Local Paper

Below is a re-print of an article I wrote recently for our local paper .  It is an intorduction to a series our church and some special guests are doing on the Heidelburg Catechim. What is a Catechism? Last week’s article finished Soli Deo Gloria’s look at J. I. Packer’s book Knowing God . We will now begin our next series of articles dealing with The Heidelberg Catechism. This week’s article will define the word “catechism” (pronounced ka-tÉ™-ki-zÉ™m) and look at how the modern Christian church can use catechisms for education in Christian doctrine. Almost all Christian denominations have developed written statements of faith to express what they believe the Bible teaches to be true. These statements of faith have included The Apostle’s Creed, The Nicene Creed, The Westminster Confession of Faith, The Articles of Religion of The Methodist Church, The New Hampshire Baptist Statement of Faith, The Declaration of Faith of The Church of God, and the modern Baptist Faith an...

Write to Understand

Folow this link to a great post containing quotes from famous theologians on writing. Write to Understand

Do Our Worship Songs Have Room for Lament?

Every person who is responsible to pick songs for corporate worship should read the essay that Justin Taylor quotes at his blog . I reprint Taylor’s quote below. From Carl Trueman, “What Can Miserable Christians Sing?” in The Wages of Spin (pp. 159-160): Perhaps . . . [the Western church] has drunk so deeply at the well of modern Western materialism that it simply does not know what to do with such cries and regards them as little short of embarrassing. A diet of unremittingly jolly choruses and hymns inevitably creates an unrealistic horizon of expectation which sees the normative Christian life as one long triumphalist street party—a theologically incorrect and a pastorally disastrous scenario in a world of broken individuals. Has an unconscious belief that Christianity is—or at least should be—all about health, wealth, and happiness corrupted the content of our worship? . . . In the psalms, God has given the church a language which allows it to express even the deepest ...

Who Dies in the Faith?

Craig Blomberg over at the Denver Seminary web page has an interesting article at the link below on the one statistic churches never seem to track: how many die in their faith. If we believe in the old-fashioned doctrine of perseverance of the saints, we know that only those who carry on to the end truly prove their salvation to be genuine. So how many converts leave the faith before they die? Those who do prove their salvation was not real in the first place. Denver Seminary Blog

Could Business Be The Solution To Poverty?

Check out this link.

Study Finds: Homosexuals Can Change Their Orientation

The study at this link should generate some conversation around the web.

Courageous

I read the book. I think this movie will be great. Courageous

A Hymn That Would Not Be Written Today - Reformation21 Blog

A hymn for those who know what pain is: A Hymn That Would Not Be Written Today - Reformation21 Blog

Is the Reformation nearly over? Perhaps, but maybe not for the reason you think, - Reformation21 Blog

Follow the following link to an article on the reformed (little “r” on purpose) ‘mega-church’ movement. Is the Reformation nearly over? Perhaps, but maybe not for the reason you think, - Reformation21 Blog

New Media, Old Bias

Please see this link: New Media, Old Bias . It is an interesting short article on bias in social media.

The Last Two Articles I Published On "Knowing God"

These are the last two articles I wrote for my local paper on J. I. Packer's book Knowing God .  These were written for a series of articles on Packer's book by members of my church.  The other articles can be found at this link. Knowing God , Chapter Nineteen: Sons of God, Part One by John K. Jones Last week we looked at what J. I. Packer calls the heart of the gospel, propitiation. Propitiation is the fact that “The wrath of God against us, both present and to come, has been quenched.” In essence, this Scripture means that the wrath we deserve due to our sin was transferred to Christ. If you have repented of your sin and placed your faith in Christ, God is not mad at you anymore. This week we will briefly look at one outcome related to propitiation: adoption. The idea here is that God has become the Father of those who place their trust in Him. As John 1:12 says, “Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become chi...

Do we help or hurt?

Steve Saint , of “End of The Spear” fame, has written a thought-provoking article for “Mission Frontiers” magazine this month that is found at this link . The article questions some approaches used to aid the “poor.” Here is a section of the article: Financial help that does not develop sustainable, local, financial self-sufficiency is much more likely to create poverty than it is to meet real needs. Until we realize that we can’t overcome poverty with handouts, we will never be much help in completing Christ’s Great Commission. Can we do more damage by “helping” than by leaving alone?

The Next Article for My Local Paper on "Knowing God"

This is the next article amoung four I have recently written for my local paper. Knowing God , Chapter Fourteen: God the Judge by John K. Jones Over the last two articles, we have looked in turn on God’s love and His grace. We have seen the beauty of Exodus 34:6-7: "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin.” This article turns to the second part of verse 7: “Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished.” We too often revel in God’s love and grace while giving no thought to His justice. However, the Bible shows everywhere the terrible face of God as judge. As J. I. Packer notes in Chapter 14 of Knowing God, God judged Adam and Eve (Genesis 3), the entire world in Noah’s day (Genesis 6-8), Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18-19), Egypt (Exodus 7-12), those who worshiped the golden calf (Leviticus 10:1-3), and even His chosen people, Israel (J...

An Article for my Local Paper - "Knowing God," Chapter Five

I have been helping the members of my church write a series of articles for our local paper on J. I. Packer's Knowing God .  I thought I would post the articles I have written here on "Fear and Trembling." Knowing God , Chapter Five: God Incarnate by John K. Jones What is light? What is matter? Science has long been puzzled by questions like these because, when we perform experiments, both light and the constituencies of matter behave like a particle some of the time and a wave some of the time. Particles are things that move in a straight line like small billiard balls. Waves are spread-out things that expand like ripples in a pond. In theory, something cannot be both. Science has its mysteries. As J. I. Packer points out in Chapter 5 of Knowing God, Christianity has mysteries too. The supreme mystery of Christianity is the idea that God became a man to walk, talk, eat, sleep, hunger, thirst, hurt, and be all that it means to be human on this earth (Hebrews 2:17-...

9/11

I wanted to say something about the 9/11 tragedy, but I realized that I had already said everything I wanted to at this post .

Almost Done With My MBA

I have one last class to go to earn my MBA from Union University , but this last class is very difficult. Hence, I have not posted much lately. It will be a few weeks before I post again. Here are some links of interest: A prayer of repentance I have had to pray allot lately can be found here . I have had some battles with some old habits I thought I had broken. A long debate between a Muslim apologist and myself can be found here  (Warning: It is a long debate.). Justin Taylor posts some parables here that I had previously posted here . Nice to know I have good taste. A friend of mine talks about his journey from atheism to Christianity here . Norman Geisler comments on what it would be like to have loved ones in hell at this link . A good reminder that some powerful truths can be contained in part of a verse at this link  (when taken in context, of course). Follow a link here to see John H. Gerstner remind us of the necessity of justification by faith ...

Tchividjian on Vocation

Tullian Tchividjian has a great article on “Staying Where You Are” in relation to a Christian’s vocation here .

Some Quotes Deserve a Post of Their Own

“If God had perceived that our greatest need was economic, he would have sent an economist. If he had perceived that our greatest need was entertainment, he would have sent us a comedian or an artist. If God had perceived that our greatest need was political stability, he would have sent us a politician. If he had perceived that our greatest need was health, he would have sent us a doctor. But he perceived that our greatest need involved our sin, our alienation from him, our profound rebellion, our death; and he sent us a Savior.” — D. A. Carson, A Call to Spiritual Reformation (Grand Rapids, Mi.:Baker Books, 1992)

Bad Things and Good People

"Why do bad things happen to good people? That only happened once, and He volunteered." - R.C. Sproul “Why do bad things happen to good people” as a philosophical problem for Christianity assumes the presence of “good people.” There simply are none in the world today. Only Jesus Christ was a truly good person, and, as Sproul points out above, He volunteered for the duty. Like it or not, no one is free from sin ( Romans 5:12-21 ). Since we are not, we should suffer. As R. C. Sproul points out above and John Gerstner pointed out in “The Problem of Pleasure,” we do not deserve anything but punishment. Earthquakes, tornados, floods, tsunamis, and other natural disasters are what we deserve. [This is a brief note on one approach to the philosophical problem of natural evil. This kind of thinking does no good to persons who are wrestling with the personal problem of evil. The personal problem of evil is what you experience when you go through it yourself. Please see this ...

Christ: Revealing God and Reconciling His People to Him

One problem in theology especially confuses me. This is not a big surprise. I am not a professional theologian and have no formal seminary training. Yet, theology is a passion for me because I know a little of what God is like, and I know how little of God’s character I reflect. In this post, I will set up the problem and suggest one possible solution. God is holy. This means He is separate and different from me, primarily in the fact that He is completely without sin or sinful desires. My understanding of God’s holiness comes mainly from reading and studying the life of Jesus. I can see out into the expanse of Christ’s life by looking through the window provided in the New Testament of the Bible. I have read this collection of 27 books many times. I have rarely questioned whether these records were true, at first because of the fact that the people I respected held the New Testament to be God’s Word and without error. Later I had the opportunity to explore the evidence for the ...

The Face of Terror

Osama Bin laden is dead. Since the rest of the internet is buzzing with opinions on that death, I thought I would weigh in. First, this is not the end of global terrorism. Like the Hydra of old, when one head is chopped off, two more take its place. We still need diligence in our fight against global terror. U. S. and allied Armed Forces still need our prayers. We still need a strong military and intelligence community. We have not yet cut off the Hydra’s immortal head. Second, the way to get to the ‘heart of the matter’ is with Christian missionary efforts. We must reach the people who make up those societies and population segments that produce terrorists . To tell a story I have told here before : Early in the twentieth century, Baptist evangelists preached through rural Mississippi and Alabama with such effectiveness that moonshiners could no longer sell their whiskey: All their customers were getting converted! In desperation, the whiskey sellers hired two men to murder on...

Good Friday and Easter Links

I wanted to put up a few links to resources on the meaning of the Good Friday and Easter holidays. Some good books on historical evidence for Christ’s resurrection can be found here , here , and here . William Lane Craig gives a tight argument for the resurrection on video here . Some good books on the meaning of the cross are here , here , and here . Some good books on the applications of the cross and the resurrection to our lives are here and here . A post on what to preach about on Easter Morning is here . Russell Moore laments the standard far of church pulpits and calls us back to preaching the cross. J. I. Packer comments on the Cross and Christ’s love here . Happy Easter everyone!

Obama Gets It Right

Thanks to Ed Stetzer for posting some of President Obama’s comments at the National Prayer Breakfast (There is a video posted at Ed's place too.)  Obama got this part right. Here is what the President said: We all live in the hustle and bustle of our work. And everybody in this room has weighty responsibilities, from leading churches and denominations, to helping to administer important government programs, to shaping our culture in various ways. And I admit that my plate has been full as well. (Laughter.) The inbox keeps on accumulating. (Laughter.) But then comes Holy Week. The triumph of Palm Sunday. The humility of Jesus washing the disciples' feet. His slow march up that hill, and the pain and the scorn and the shame of the cross. And we're reminded that in that moment, he took on the sins of the world -- past, present and future -- and he extended to us that unfathomable gift of grace and salvation through his death and resurrection. In the words of the b...

Under the Category of “I’m Glad I Don’t Have to Read That Book…”

Michael Scott Horton reviews Rob Bell’s Love Wins at this link . Mike Licona reviews Forged by Bart Ehrman at this link . Thank you Mike and Mike for reading those books and reviewing them for the rest of us.

Lewis and Earthly Christians

“If you read history you will find that the Christians who did most for the present world were precisely those who thought most of the next. . . . It is since Christians have largely ceased to think of the other world that they have become so ineffective in this one." - C. S. Lewis ( Mere Christianity , chapter 10)

How Rob Bell Drove Me To Repentance – A Quote from Another Blog

Reformation Theology quotes a pastor on the reality of hell at this link. Here’s the quote: A very good friend of mine, Pastor Graeme Adams, from Dundee, Scotland writes, "“Are you orthodox on the issue of hell? Good! Does it cause you to pray and weep for the lost and actively seek ways to reach them with the good news of Jesus, or be smug or worse because you know something Rob Bell doesn’t? It’s incredibly sad and harmful when high profile leaders propagate heresy, AND when millions of Christians profess faith, historical biblical faith, and yet don’t live it. Heresy and Cold lifeless heartless Orthodoxy are partners in crime against humanity and God. May God use this issue to break our hearts.”

All Things Are Not Equal

“All things being equal, God does desire that no one should perish. But all things are not equal. Sin is real. Sin violates God’s holiness and righteousness. God also is not willing that sin should go unpunished. He desires as well that His holiness should be vindicated…. When the preceptive will is violated, things are no longer equal.” – R. C. Sproul, From Can I Know God’s Will? pp. 22-23. We no longer have a right to claim God’s favor when we violate His commands. We forfeit all claims on His love and mercy. As the highest and best being in the universe, God has the right to demand of us whatever He desires. God’s desires are always in accordance with His nature, and He is wholly good. He can no more command something that is evil than He can cease to be God. He cannot because He will not, and His essential desires never change. God, in some sense, takes “no pleasure in the death of anyone” (Ezekiel 18:32) and does not desire “that any should perish, but that all should reac...

Some Quotes Deserve a Post of Their Own: The Bad News and The Good News

“The bad news is far worse than making mistakes or failing to live up to the legalistic standards of fundamentalism. It is that the best efforts of the best Christians, on the best days, in the best frame of heart and mind, with the best motives fall short of that true righteousness and holiness that God requires. Our best efforts cannot satisfy God’s justice. Yet the good news is that God has satisfied his own justice and reconciled us to himself through the life, death, and resurrection of his Son. God’s holy law can no longer condemn us because we are in Christ.” — Michael Horton, Christless Christianity (Grand Rapids, Mi.: Baker Books, 2008), 91.

There is nothing in us or done by us…

“There is nothing in us or done by us, at any stage of our earthly development, because of which we are acceptable to God. We must always be accepted for Christ’s sake, or we cannot ever be accepted at all. This is not true of us only when we believe. It is just as true after we have believed. It will continue to be true as long as we live. Our need of Christ does not cease with our believing; nor does the nature of our relation to Him or to God through Him ever alter, no matter what our attainments in Christian graces or our achievements in behavior may be. It is always on His “blood and righteousness” alone that we can rest.” - B. B. Warfield I have had many times of doubt in my life. I have convinced myself I was on the way to hell because of my mediocre Christian life, my personal suffering, and my doubts. In my times of despair, I have learned to look to three things: Look to my attitude toward God. "The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love...

Do Christians Divorce More Often than Non-Christians?

How many times have you heard that the divorce rate among Christians is higher than the divorce rates among the general population?   Research revealed at this link says that this is wrong.   Conservative religious practice yields lower divorce rates. [Thanks to Trevin Wax for the link.] [3/22/11 - More on the issue from Gene Edward Veith at this link .]

Hitler Never Existed?

A wonderful, tongue-in-check piece about revisionist history is at this link .   I cannot help but think about those people who say Jesus Christ never existed as I read this.

Rob Bell and Hell

I agree with Justin Taylor that Rob Bell now seems to have outwardly embraced universalism . He seems to be teaching that all people ultimately go to heaven. Taylor provides Bell’s video at this link , and Bell’s own words condemn him.  (If this turns out to be some kind of publicity stunt, then woe to Bell for taking liberties with his message.) I have written about Bell’s dangerous theological leanings before (see the links here and here ), but this new teaching takes him far outside orthodox Christianity. Jesus is the figure from the Bible who says the most about hell. He describes it as eternal (Mt. 25:41, 46; Mk. 9:43, 48) and as a place of torment (Mt. 25:30). To venture outside these teachings is to find oneself arrayed against the Lord of Glory Himself. (I recommend an audio presentation by R. C. Sproul on hell at this link .) I do not relish the idea of anyone going to hell, and I find it encouraging that God does not either (Ezek. 33:11, Mt. 23:37-38). ...

The Bible’s Big Picture

Ligonier Ministries blog shares a helpful list from R. C. Sproul. R. C. has listed various books of the Bible to read in order to get the overall story of Scripture at this link . It is a helpful list for ‘big picture’ people. How about it all you Myers-Briggs intuitives ? Let’s read some Scripture together.

Are all objections to the Christian Faith based on reason?

Christianity Today says "no" at this link .

I Need a Real Chaplain Who Believes in a Real Hell

Trevin Wax posts a great scene from the TV show ER.   Every liberal Christian theologian should watch the video at this link .

Two great resources on Bart Erhman

The Erhman Project – A huge collection of resources. A summary of Dr. William Lane Craig’s recent lecture on some of Ehrman’s latest work.

Abortion: Stem the Tide

On this 38th anniversary of Roe v. Wade I felt it was important to post on the topic. First, I would like to provide some links on the subject: Greg Lucas: Four Women I Would Like to Thank on the 38th Anniversary of Roe vs Wade (Best blog post I have read on the subject!) R. C. Sproul on: Experiencing God’s Forgiveness from Guilt Connected with Abortion (Important for all of us to remember: God’s grace is bigger than all of our sins.) Justin Taylor: The Supreme Court, Roe v. Wade, and Abortion Law George Grant’s comments and statistics passed on by Ligonier. Kevin DeYoung: Jesus Loves The Little Children (a startling look at the similarities between our culture and ancient ones) Scott Klusendorf: Clarity Not Gadgetry: Pro-Life Apologetics for the Next Generation Justin Taylor: This is Abortion (Warning: the video on this page is extremely graphic and not for the faith of heart.) A book by Francis J. Beckwith: Defending Life: A Moral and Legal Case Against Aborti...

Motivation for World Missions

Gospel for Asia has two wonderful videos on their web site promoting world missions. I recommend them. They can be found here . [Thanks to Desiring God for the link .]

Over 400 Posts

This is my 401st post at Fear and Trembling . I wanted to give links to some significant posts and some brief thoughts on the blog. Links to the most popular posts since I installed Google Analytics in late March of 2007: Some quotes from the Koran. A disturbing set of quotes from George W. Bush. A post on the theology of N. T. Wright. A post on Paley’s teleological argument (argument from design for God’s existence) with links to more resources. A post on a hymn-writer who suffered from major depression for most of his life, even as a Christian. A search label of a series of posts I did on why I am a Christian as opposed to other faiths or worldviews. Some posts I wish people would visit more often: A post on why we need salvation and why we cannot provide it for ourselves. My slightly irreverent personal testimony (somewhat ‘tongue in cheek’). A post on faith and good works. A search label that gives succinct reasons to accept God’s Existence. A post tha...

Ingratitude

Russell Moore has a post up over at The Resurgence that convicts me for ingratitude (follow this link ).   His post really hits home for an adoptive parent like me. [Side note: This is my 400th post.  Blogging has been fun so far.]

Over 70 Christians Have Been Arrested in Iran

Please see the post and links here .

New Year’s Resolutions, 2011

After considerable thought, I resolve to: Spend more time with my family. Lose 50 pounds. Read through Operation World . Teach through The Good News We Almost Forgot in a Sunday, 06:30, Bible Study. Make straight A’s in my MBA program at Union University . Some of these might be mutually exclusive, but I hope not.